Like many of the business elite, Gates is concerned by the eye-watering levels of government debt.

At the time of writing, Uncle Sam’s national debt sits at more than $36.2 trillion—and Gates confirmed he’s on board with any plot to bring the federal budget into better balance.

This is the premise of Musk’s DOGE proposal, after the X/SpaceX/xAI/Boring Company founder—and now sole boss at DOGE—said he could cut $2 trillion in government spending.

Musk—the richest man on the planet—has since scaled back the promise, saying he’ll aim for $2 trillion but will likely only be able to cut $1 trillion.

Even if the lower benchmark is achieved, the corresponding reduction to government debt (and corresponding interest payments) would be welcome news to those who fear the U.S. is headed for economic turmoil because of its national financial obligations.

“I think the idea that looking at government expenditures on a sort of zero-based budgeting approach could be a valuable thing,” Gates told the Wall Street Journal in an interview published over the weekend. “I’m amongst the people who think the deficit needs to be brought down because otherwise it will create a financial problem for us.

“So that effort could come up with some good things.”

Likewise, the scale and pace at which Musk will need to work will require nothing to be left off the table.

“Given the numbers that they’ve tossed around, they’ll have to look at everything,” the chairman of the Gates Foundation added. “Including pension, defense, health care.”

While the tech titan worth $166 billion per the Bloomberg Billionaires Index conceded that in many government departments there’s room for greater efficiency, he added: “I do worry a little bit that if you say ‘Hey let’s completely get rid of things’ some of the things have long-term benefits.

“I obviously believe in HIV medicines where the U.S. is keeping tens of millions of people alive and if you cut those off not only would they die when we have a cure on its way but the negative feelings you’d have say in Africa would be worse than never having done the thing at all.

“Parts of the budget I know well, yes you could optimize but I hope the value system still includes the 0.5% that saves all those lives.”

Gates also seemed somewhat surprised by the amount of time Musk is able to spend dabbling in European politics.

As well as repeatedly taking aim at U.K. Prime Minister Keir Starmer—and reportedly engaging in plots to try to oust the Labor politician at the next general election—Musk virtually appeared over the weekend at a campaign event for far-right German party Alternative for Germany.

“I’m not trying to talk about European politicians like he is,” Gates said by way of contrast. “So some of that surprises me a bit, like wow he finds time to do a lot of things.”

What’s the worry with government debt?

If Uncle Sam has racked up debts of more than $32 trillion and can still boast one of the healthiest economies on earth, how much of a problem does national debt really represent?

Well, the concern for the likes of JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon and Fed chairman Jerome Powell isn’t the level of debt itself, it’s America’s debt-to-GDP ratio.

This indicates how much the country owes versus what it produces, and thus its ability to pay that debt back.

Presently the Congressional Budget Office estimates that by 2054 public debt will represent 166% of GDP, reaching $141.1 trillion, potentially prompting lenders to question—and panic about—whether America will be able to repay its loans.

As Wall Street veteran Dimon put it this time last year: “If you look at that 100% debt to GDP by [2035] I think it’s going to be 130%, and it’s a hockey stick. That hockey stick doesn’t start yet but when it starts, markets around the world…there will be a rebellion.”

He added: “It is a cliff. We see the cliff. It’s about 10 years out.”